EP33 Talking to a Wall? 3 Communication Tips That Actually Work
[00:00:00] You're like the stars in outer space. Something about you radiates. And it feels so nice, and it feels so nice, yeah
Jessica Gaines: Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of the Starlit Success podcast. I am your host, as always, Jessica Gaines, and I am back inside in the air conditioning. Last week's episode, I was outside in like 95-degree weather. Um, big mistake, never doing that again. We are back in the comfort of our bedroom.
Don't love the backdrop, but we're gonna do what I do. as you know, we've been spending the last few weeks just getting settled. We've got a lot of shit to do. but my biggest concern was getting the boys situated for school, and just making sure that they felt prepared, and confident, and ready, and all of that.
And while Javen is just living his best life in his college dorms, you know, Zanden's been having a little bit more of an adjustment. You know, he's brand new to not only the school district, but the state. and if any of you have been a middle schooler before, you [00:01:00] know it's just an awkward age.
So to be a new kid in eighth grade at a new school in a new state, it's just, it's just a lot for him. So something happened the other day that I was not very happy about. so he tells me, and I'll get into the whole reason of this episode in a minute, but this is kind of what's gonna lead into it. So I'll just give you a brief highlight of what happened. So he was pulled out of his first hour class and was told that his fourth hour was gonna be changing, which then also affected his lunch because apparently whatever class that they have in fourth hour, they have to sit with those kids at lunch.
I didn't have any heads up about it. I didn't get any kind of email, no phone call, no nothing. This is all just between staff and Zanden, and I was just kind of annoyed that they did it that way, and they just, like, yanked him out of his first hour, and they just sent him to a different class.
It was just annoying that I didn't have any kind of communication or heads up. So of course, what any mom would do, I call the school just to find out, you know, what the reason is, why it happened the way that it did, how we can kind of find a compromise [00:02:00] because he really was not happy about the schedule change.
and I end up on the phone with the assistant principal, and as I'm trying to explain where I'm coming from, and I'm pretty good with people. Like, I always am, like, very calm and nice and address them as a person first before I go into the issue. But it feels like all she cares about is just getting her point across, and she just continuously over-talks me
Which is obviously super frustrating because I'm sure anyone who has experienced being over-talked, it's annoying. we're trying to communicate something, and it feels like you're not even listening to me because every time I say something, you're just jumping in to respond. But I always try to find the silver lining in all of my frustrating moments in life, and that was the inspiration for this episode. Because I feel like this is a message that needs to be shared. And that is just how [00:03:00] critical collaborative communication is. Not just any communication. communication is usually between more than one person, so it needs to be a team effort, and this did not feel like a team effort. It felt like she was just talking at me, and she didn't wanna hear anything that I had to say
and honestly, communication is just imperative to everything in life. And it's one of the reasons that I feel like I've been pretty successful in life with my marriage, with my kids, with my relationships, with my work, because I, I know how to communicate with people. I get people.
I'm realizing now in my 40s it doesn't come as easy to some people, and that's okay, but you have to be willing to learn
I mean, it could be something as simple as calling customer service to resolve an issue that you're having all the way to maintaining a healthy marriage. I mean, communication is at the heart of everything that we do
But because there's so [00:04:00] much that I could touch on this subject, I feel like this inspiration that I got, we're gonna call it inspiration 'cause it was actually real frustration the other day, But today we're gonna just focus on the human connection piece of communication . there's a bunch of components in communication That will affect how you live your life and the results that you get, but I'm gonna focus on these three, which I think were lacking, like severely lacking in this exchange.
And I will get into that in a minute.
But what really got me fired up about this whole, conversation was I felt like I was just talking to a wall. You ever feel like that? You ever feel like you just... You're, you're trying to communicate what you're going through, what your experience has been, what you need from the other person, how you're feeling, whatever it is, and they just, they just keep responding.
They just respond, respond, respond, and they don't take any second to actually hear what you're saying or listen to what you're going through
Like they are just [00:05:00] so focused on getting their point across that they're not even considering if you're in a space to receive it
much less receiving
They think that if they talk louder, speak more firmly, use bigger words, state more facts, provide more data points or, or whatever it is that they're trying to get across, they think that that is what is gonna make you hear them, or that is what is gonna make you understand
Like, "Oh, okay. Now that you got loud, now that you use your professional voice and you use all of these jargon terms, now I get it. Oh, got it. Thank you. That's what I was missing
Like they don't even realize that that is the main thing that is preventing the other person from understanding, from getting anywhere
those things that they're doing is what is making the other person resistant to the message. So the more she just kept talking at me, the less I was willing to receive, the less I wanted to hear what she had to say
I, I [00:06:00] could feel it. Like the minute I said something, she was just waiting for me to say like a specific word. She was just listening for that so she could respond to that word or to that sentence or whatever it was. She wasn't actually understanding what I was trying to say
She was missing all of the key points
And the more she interrupted me, the louder she spoke, the more she reiterated their policies or procedures
and academic requirements and whatever else the less compassionate I felt she was
the more my guard went completely up
I honestly, it, it got to a point where I felt like Zanden was just another number on their enrollment, and she was just trying to get through this conversation as fast as she could so maybe she could call the next parent.
, I didn't feel like she was really trying to get to the root of the issue and try to help him or help me. It was just like check, check, check, like black and white, onto the next
And she's not even realizing, she was creating so much static in her message it was, like, blocking the [00:07:00] signal. it was like Charlie Brown, you know, the , the teacher in the classroom. Wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah. Like, that's exactly how it felt. my ears shut down.
I wasn't even paying attention to what she had to say anymore
And I'm sure you can probably relate, like how many emotionally charged, maybe difficult conversations have you been in where you felt like the other person just wasn't listening
Like you felt like each of you were just trying to get your points across but no one was actually hearing each other
you're trying to explain where you're coming from, what your understanding is, the data that you have, your perception, and the other person is doing the exact same. And the more you both are just trying to prove where each of you are coming from, the less you're actually hearing the other person And then it's just going nowhere.
It's like literally just going around and around in circles and you're not solving anything
in the midst of that, you're probably both getting even more and more frustrated, and I wouldn't be surprised if then the conversation turned into an argument, and [00:08:00] now you're arguing about something that the other person said because you're not even focused on the solution anymore.
You're just focused on what you have to say
So in my situation, in this scenario,, first I actually asked her, like, if she had kids, and I even asked, you know, like how old. Has she experienced having a teenager before? I was trying to connect with her on, like, a mom level, and but she said she had, a couple 20-year-olds. I'm like, "Oh, okay, so you totally understand what it is to raise a teenager in that awkward middle school age." I was trying to find a common ground with her and kind of relate to her because I felt like that would help her kind of understand what we were going through, I was trying to help her understand that not only is Zanden new to the school, he's new to the state. I'm trying to paint the picture of this major transition for him and how intimidating this whole experience is, and how big the school is for him, and how many more kids there are, and trying to help her understand that I, as his mom, am more [00:09:00] concerned about his mental and emotional wellbeing than I am about this specific class that they're trying to assign him to that, checks off some academic requirement.
I'm not saying I don't find that this academic requirement is important. I'm just trying to explain to her my values
and the fact that his lunch is disrupted without any notice only a few days in that affects who he sits with, so now he has to sit with kids who are a grade below him. To you and I, to her and I, to any adult, might not seem like that big of a deal, but to a, a 13-year-old, having to sit with a class younger is, like, so not cool, right?
And in his mind, that's not gonna help him or do him any favors in making friends, in his mind. So again, I'm trying to put myself in his shoes and understand how he must be feeling, and I'm trying to help her do the same. I'm not saying you have to change [00:10:00] his whole schedule for him, but I was looking for a little compassion, and I was looking for some sense of, "Oh, I apologize that it happened that way," and, I can see how that must have felt for him," some kind of human connection, and I got none of that
she just went straight to all the reasons why. This is why we do this. This is why he needs this. This is why, this is why, this is why. at no point did we ever consider him as a person. It was just like a number on their enrollment that needed this class to graduate, and that was it
And my thing is, like, even if you don't agree with someone, even if you can't change anything, even if you do need to explain why something happened the way that it did, you can still validate someone's feelings. You can still connect with them on a human level, on an emotional level
Because it's very, very possible to respect someone's feelings validate their feelings and not agree with them. [00:11:00] That is possible. You can do that
Here's an example. So let's say your kid, or if you don't have kids, your niece or nephew or a small child, is crying because they wanna go play in the rain, but there's lightning outside. They can't. It's unsafe, and you as an adult need to protect them, and you can't let them play in the rain. But you also don't have to be an asshole about it and yell at them and tell them to stop crying because there's lightning outside.
Maybe , maybe some parents do that. That's not how I parent. maybe this is gentle parenting, but I feel like I'm both. If you know me, you know me. I don't play with my kids. But if they're really upset, and it's something that they really wanna do, wouldn't you be like, "Ah, that would be really fun. That would be so fun to play outside.
I love that you wanna do that. I would totally play outside with you. We can't, though, because there's lightning outside. And you know why we can't because there's lightning outside? Because that could hurt you." So you're validating their feelings. you're making them feel seen, heard, and understood, and you're [00:12:00] also still saying you can't do what it is that you wanna do. But you're treating them like a person first, and that's all I was expecting, was to be treated as a person
And that is what this interaction was missing, and that's what I feel like so many people miss in communication. I see this everywhere. I see this in relationships, I see this at work, I see this with, , parents and kids people are so focused on the message that they miss the person.
you should be so focused on the human first, the person first, how they're going to receive it, how they're perceiving it, how they're dealing with the situation, and then get into the message. I can see why this. I can understand you're feeling this way. Like, whatever, whatever. I even do that if I'm emailing, work stuff or like customer service stuff if I need to get an email out.
I always address the person. [00:13:00] I'm never like, "Dear Mary, I need you to da, da, da, da, da." It's always like, "Dear Mary, I hope you're doing well."
And honestly, no matter what the communication is, you should always be addressing the human first, but especially when it's something difficult, when it's a challenging message, when it's a complicated situation, when you know there's gonna be emotions involved
Because almost all communication happens with a person on the other side. Almost everything. Even if it's an email, even if it's a text, even if it's a chat, a Teams message, there is a human on the other side of that exchange
I'm not saying like you just need a quick answer to something that you have to have this whole like kumbaya moment every interaction, but I'm specifically speaking when it comes to those more challenging communications you have to create an environment where you're making it easier for that other person to receive it it's almost like priming them.
Like you're priming them, you're priming the [00:14:00] situation for this to be exchanged
you're trying to clear away the interferences. You're trying to take down those guards. You're trying to show them that you care first, even if they don't matter to you, y- that you care about resolving this for them or resolving this, period
Really, you just have to make them feel like you give a shit first, like you actually care about what it is you're trying to accomplish
Think about when you have had an interaction and it was a difficult call, it was a difficult meeting, it was a difficult exchange, but you felt like they heard you. You felt like you were seen. How much more smooth did that go? Like you don't feel like someone's just out to get you then
And you're gonna be in a position where you're a lot more willing to listen to what they have to say, even if it's something that you don't necessarily wanna hear
Because when you have an environment that feels, we'll call it safe, you feel like you can trust that person and that they have your [00:15:00] best interest at heart. Whether or not they agree with you, whether or not they can fix whatever it is that you need fixing, you feel that they're going to try their hardest, they're gonna do their best
it feels more collaborative then. It feels like it's you and that other person on the same team against this problem than it is you and this person against each other. 'Cause oftentimes that's what it turns into. It turns into me versus you instead of me and you versus the issue, is what it really should be
And when you do this, now, let's say before you were in the boat, you were rowing one direction and they were rowing another. And what happens then? You go nowhere. You're going this way, they're going that way, and you're just stuck. . You're not going anywhere because you're not rowing in the same direction.
When you're both in the same boat and you're both rowing in the same direction and it's you and this person against the problem, you move. You make [00:16:00] progress. You get somewhere
And then you, you move to that goal so much faster. Whether or not it's the result that you want, you come to a conclusion one way or another, and likely a lot more amicably. I think I'm saying that right. So what am I saying? I am saying, number one, always listen to understand.
Stop listening to respond. Don't even think about responding yet. Whatever that person is telling you, . try to understand, this might be a little bit more advanced But try to understand from their point of view. Don't try to understand from your point of view because your brain and your filters and your thoughts and your experiences and your beliefs are all gonna be different from theirs.
So you need to make an attempt to try to understand from their point of view
This is gonna help you really get to like the meat and the root of what it is that we're trying to accomplish
And it's gonna make the [00:17:00] conversation so much more productive when you can actually understand what it is that is driving this So if the assistant principal really would have been listening to me, she would have heard that my biggest concern was not the class that they put him in. It wasn't the lunch period they put him in.
It was his emotional and mental health. It was his overall wellbeing that I was concerned about, and she never addressed that once. eventually I told her, like I just came right out and told her, which is also helpful if you can be direct that way. But listen for that. Listen to what other things that they're saying
And then the second most important thing, so after you're, you're really, you're putting yourself in their shoes, you're really trying to listen from their perspective and understand from their perspective, empathize. That is one of the things that makes us human, having empathy for other people, caring about what they're going through.
I am an empath. I feel what everyone is feeling., I didn't [00:18:00] realize this, in my younger years. Like, I thought everybody felt this way. But I can feel what others are feeling. It almost is like I'm experiencing it with them. Even though it's not affecting me, I can totally understand what they're going through.
if you're not one of those people, whatever situation that they're in, pretend it's you. even if you've never experienced what they're going through or their problem or their whatever, - whatever the issue is, appreciate that they are. You know, appreciate if, even if it's something that you necessarily wouldn't be upset about, you're like, "Why are they, why are they all mad about this?
Why is this lady calling me about changing her kid's lunch hour?" Appreciate that it's a problem for them, and appreciate maybe why that is
Whether or not you agree with them, just respect the fact that they're feeling whatever it is they're feeling
studies have shown that having empathy
improves relationship building
It reduces anxiety
And it increases the effectiveness of your [00:19:00] message during difficult moments
.. and if you can, find some kind of common ground to where you can make them feel seen or make them feel like you understand what they're going through
Or even if, even if you can't, even if you've never experienced what they're going through, apologize that they're going through it
Or validate like, "Oh man, that must have been really scary for him. That must have been really frustrating. I'm sorry that that happened." It's not your fault. You're not saying, "I'm sorry I did this." You're not taking responsibility for it. You're just saying, "Man, that sucks. I'm really sorry that that happened to you."
And a lot of the times, that's all they need to hear. It's that simple. And the last one. So we've got the first one is listen to understand, not listen to respond. Number two is show empathy. And number three is just be mindful of your tone. Be mindful of your delivery.
You know, when I was on the phone with her, the way she was talking to me was like I was a child. she wanted to assert her authority [00:20:00] and sound powerful, and was loud, and just very matter-of-fact. And while I can appreciate that that might just be who she is, you know, I'm not judging her, but also when you're dealing with children and you're dealing with families, there should be some sense of compassion.
And the interesting thing is your tone and how you deliver a message is 38% of how it will be received. So it's 38% tone, 55% physiology, which in this case didn't really matter. That's like more like body language and your mannerisms and your eye contact and things like that, which we didn't really have any of that.
And it's only 7% is your words. So 93% of your communication is your energy, not even what you're saying
So if you have difficult news to share,
If the content is harsh or uncomfortable, just soften the delivery. Think about how it will be received
Gosh, you guys, I could go on and on about this topic. but I'm gonna leave it at [00:21:00] that. . So that uncomfortable conversation turned into a whole episode, and the moral of the story is focus on the person first before the message. Focus on achieving a solution and not just trying to get your point across
So this week I want you to reflect back on a difficult conversation you had or a challenging moment or conversation that you had at work, or with one of your friends, or with your spouse, or your girlfriend, or your boyfriend, or your kid, and think about the part that you played in it which one of these pieces were you missing
Because we know we can't change anyone else. I can't tell her how to communicate. I can't change her interactions with anyone. I can't change any interactions that I'm gonna have with her in the future. But I can be mindful of how I respond How could you use one of these pieces to improve the outcome of that communication? So I didn't really go into this, but our conversation actually [00:22:00] ended up going way longer than I anticipated because I used all of these things. You know, I asked her about her kids. I softened my tone. The louder she got, the softer I got.
The more she interrupted me, the more pauses I would take, and it was kind of like this, this dance, and it got to a point where then she was trying to help me get into his Google Classroom, and she was asking other people to help me, and it became a much more collaborative experience because I was treating...
It was like the more I treated her as a person, the more she realized maybe she should treat me as a person, The more direct and cold she was with me, the softer and more warm I was with her, I just kept, counteracting what I didn't like instead of combating her,
If she would've gotten louder, then I would've gotten louder. If she would've interrupted me, then I would've interrupted her. We would've gotten nowhere. , The reason I say that is because you can actually alter someone else's response by the way you communicate and by your response.
So I hope this was helpful. I hope this helps [00:23:00] in your communications with anyone in your life. I use these all the time, . And that's one of the biggest roles in my nine to five is just communicating.
as a project manager, you have to make sure that everyone is talking to everyone else, and everyone is understanding where the other person is coming from, and it's just constant communication. And you're dealing with a lot of different personalities, a lot of different information, and some of it is not always ideal.
try these out, and I would love to hear what worked for you, what didn't work for you. Do you have any questions? Was this clear? Was there anything you want me to elaborate on? I feel like this is going to be a topic that I will be talking more about in the future because communication is so vital. but that's what I have for you today.
So thank you for spending your time with me today, and I will see you on the next episode
